WWGOA Editor Response:
As a general guideline for how to price your woodworking projects try using your material costs multiplied by a factor of four. Use this as a starting point, then apply some common sense. Some projects can be small and labor intensive. Since they don’t require a lot of material, you’ve got to increase the price to compensate for your time.
I start by doing the math as stated above. Let’s say I’m going to use $150 worth of material on the project. My projected price would be $600. The next step is to subtract the material costs from the final price, which in this case, leaves $450. This is to cover your labor. You have do decide if that’s a fair amount. Estimate how long it will take you to get the material and build, sand, and finish the piece. Then decide if you’ll be happy with the profit amount. You’ll need to decide how much per hour or per day you’re willing to work for.
Here are a couple additional tips. If you do good work, don’t be afraid to charge fairly for it. Quality woodworking is a finely tuned skill that takes a long time to learn and can require a significant investment in tools, and you should be compensated for that as a professional. How much did you pay the last time you had work done by a plumber, electrician, or mechanic? Many woodworkers tend to undervalue their skills.
When calculating your material costs, include ALL the material. If I have to buy a full sheet of plywood but the project only calls for half a sheet, I charge for the full sheet. The same goes for waste that you’ll have when working with solid wood. If you’re looking at doing this for a living, remember that you won’t get every job you bid on and you won’t be in the shop building projects (that you can invoice for) all the time. You have a fixed cost of doing business that includes traveling to customer’s homes, taking measurements, doing drawings, writing estimates, and using disposable supplies, like sandpaper and glue.Your profit margin has to cover the fixed costs, plus some.
George Vondriska
Managing Editor
Got a woodworking question you need answered? Comment or Email us at editor@wwgoa.com
Pricing. Sale items
Hobby now….extra cash later on to supplement SS.
I have been a member for about 5 years now, and I find that I usually underestimate how much wood I need for a project, even though I add 20-25% overage from my board foot calculations. Why do I always seem to short myself and have to go buy more wood?
Hi David. Your actual yield can vary a lot depending on the grade of material and the dimensions that you use, as well as the size of the project that you are making. If you are building small things with large pieces of defect-free material, you can get nearly perfect yield. If you are building large projects will smaller material that is loaded with defects, your yield will drop dramatically.
When I buy expensive material for a project, I will take my cut list with me to the lumber yard, and take the time to mark each plank with the corresponding part ID from my cut list. If you are working with sheet goods, spend the time up front to make a cutting diagram for each piece of plywood. Visualizing it can help you optimize for yield.
Paul
Woodworkers Guild of America
I had a friend that works for a cabinet door replacement company. Even though he didn’t actually make and sell any products, he explained that carpenters are few and far between and the hourly rate just kept going up for him and his skillset. Thinking to switch over from my fab job to try this! Thanks for the article.
For years I’ve been undercharging for my services, I have been pricing based on this, cost of materials double it and then add 50% roughly 25% cheaper, I’m guessing the exact same methodology is the norm throughout the world and will be working on that basis from now on
Howard Goodisson: your formula is still not right. I had a furniture manufacturing shop and I worked on at least 4 times the cost of materials and even then it was still not enough. I sold wholesale to retailers and they were always screwing my price’s down until one day I packed up my workshop and shifted to the country. I just make what I want now and put my own price on it.
Or charge it out on an hrly rate of $80 per hr plus materials and mark up.
How to price woodwork items
I a few weeks ago sent a comment on pricing custom projects where one’s skill level is hard to match in the market and got a response that the comment was awaiting moderation, but since then I have seen no response.
Hello Ray,
Here’s what the experts had to say about your question:
There are many nuances to pricing work like this, and unfortunately there’s not an easy answer. You could take a formulaic/academic approach, looking at demand elasticity, competitive analysis, barriers to entry for new competitors, etc. but ultimately that approach works better for large volume businesses. For lower volume custom work I’d suggest choosing a materials plus hourly rate approach with some subjective variability based on what the market will bear based on what you know about a given project/customer situation. Once you are keeping yourself busy, gradually raise your prices as you sense that you can. The market will tell you when you’ve gone too far.
Paul
Wood Workers Guild of America Expert
Dear George,
Your article on pricing of woodwork was quite interesting and educative in so far as it related to, in my perception, general woodworking. My question comes in the form of, how do I price my work if it is custom, and my skill level is very high as to make the pieces that I make rare?
Hi Ray,
Here is what our experts had to say:
There are many nuances to pricing work like this, and unfortunately there’s not an easy answer. You could take a formulaic/academic approach, looking at demand elasticity, competitive analysis, barriers to entry for new competitors, etc. but ultimately that approach works better for large volume businesses. For lower volume custom work I’d suggest choosing a materials plus hourly rate approach with some subjective variability based on what the market will bear based on what you know about a given project/customer situation. Once you are keeping yourself busy, gradually raise your prices as you sense that you can. The market will tell you when you’ve gone too far.
Paul
Thank you!
Change the word profit to gross margins and then add profit.
Develop a shop hourly rate that includes labor, tools and expendable material.
Develop an hourly rate for design and site measurement.
Find a Commission Agreement form that would include description of the project, acceptance of final design, 35% down payment, warranty, terms and conditions of sale.
Consider using an estimating form that would detail labor per steps of the project and detail material cost.
That was a good model to start out with. I also had difficulty with quoting, calculating time for labor, etc. I know that I under sold myself all the time. Thanks for your support and the reminder that our skill took a long time to master.
Great advice, George. You could have added one caveat, though. Any job is worth only what the market will bear. It is always good to find out what similar projects are selling for, then tailoring the price for your own skills, craftsmanship, and special twists. Remember, you are not just a craftsman who enjoys woodworking, you must also be a marketeer and salesman.
For many years I ran a fairly sizable ($45million/year) company that manufactured highly-rated loudspeaker systems. Four times bill-of-materials cost was also our standard formula for establishing a retail price; however, in our case that cost included a full-burdened labor cost (including benefits and other overhead such as marketing, facilities, etc.) and was used to calculate the retail price for our products. Since our products were “wholesaled” to retailers we could only sell them for about 60% of that calculated retail so your 4X material cost to retail formula should result in a pretty decent profit for most woodworkers.
Good advice, often I am doing projects for others for interest. I often wonder what the value is so that some guidelines was useful
great read.
This was great advice. You really made it simple and it makes sense. I needed this formula and your encouragement about the detailed work and disposable supplies etc. I put so much into every piece I build and it needs to be counted.
This was a great article George. I’m retired and doing many handyman jobs for people and have a hard time figuring what to charge. Started keeping close track of material and was surprised that I was under estimating my costs. I also had my daughter and some of her friends give me a better idea of what my hourly rate should be and was again surprised at what others were charging for work that was far from what I’d regard as quality. Thanks again for your suggestions.
How does MDF weather outside in sun and rain?
Do you have any pricing calculators to recommend?
I cannot find a download for the program. How do you download it?
Hello Bob!
Which program are you looking for? This page talks about how to price projects.
Thank you!
Jessica
Woodworkers Guild of America Video Membership
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I ordered the DVD’s WOODWORKING SHOPTIPS AND TRICKS… I received them excitedly put one in the DVD player on my lap top it wont auto start, none of them will, the readme says i have to have windows 2000, windows XP or some other out dated windows application,, this would have been nice to know before i WASTED $75.00 on something that i cant use!!
Hello Dan,
I’m sorry that the windows isn’t up to accessing the DVD. Here’s a link to a great free media player that will work:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-windows.html
If you have any other concerns, please contact us at 1-855-253-0822, or chat with us on our site.
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Joan
Woodworkers Guild of America Video Membership
just stared my own woodwofking need some help.
Hi Lindwood. Is there anything specific you are looking for? Please let us know and we will assist you.
Thanks
Jean-Woodworkers Guild of America Video Membership
Very helpful for beginner in the industry.
Thanks for the insight…looking to start a side hustle for a few extra play dollars…spent some money on some decent tools
Great ingf\\
great ….
If you charge for “all the material”, i.e., the whole sheet of plywood, the whole quart of finish, etc., then do you give the excess to the customer at the end since they technically purchased it? If not, do you charge for it if you use it in the next project?
Hi Matt. I wouldn’t give them leftover material. You have to factor in your cost to determine the price that you charge. If you have a use for the plywood that is left, and want to reduce the price to the customer to reflect that, no problem. Unless the customer requests to receive your leftover plywood, I wouldn’t provide that. It would be unusual. The customer is paying for a completed project that meets their specifications.
Thanks
Paul-Woodworkers Guild of America
How do I sign in to this seminar?
Hello. Are you trying to login to your membership or is there a specific video you are looking for? If you have any questions, you can contact our customer service team at 1-855-253-0822 or chat with us on our site and we would be happy to assist you.
Thanks
Jean-Woodworkers Guild of America Video Membership
Establish what you want to make per hour and multiply it by 2.5 for you labor cost. Say you want $20.00 per hour so multiply by 2.5 to make it $50.00 per hour plus material cost (all materials). This rate should cover customer contacts, picking up materials delivery etc. I used this formula for estimating and it comes out very close.
I tend to disagree with pricing projects this way. I used to price this way, but realized some issues. If I was bidding on a job that required oak, and then the customer changed their mind and decided they wanted a more expensive wood, the labor in the job is the same either way. But charging a labor rate multiplied by your material cost would make your labor rate skyrocket just because you swapped out wood species. This, to me, is not a fair way to price. So, I built myself a method of pricing where I price my how much work is involved, and figure my labor rates to build the project first, then calculate all my materials cost separately. This way, in my opinion, is the most fair way to charge, and I know exactly how much money I will make on the job. And if they decide they want to make some revisions to the project after bidding, this also become much easier and much more fair, for me and the customer. Whereas before, I was simply guessing at how much difference the revision would make in cost.
I tend to NOT mark up my materials, the reason being TAX. In my state VT if I mark up material I am required to charge tax on my mark up. Meaning if I purchace a sheet of plywood for say $25.00 then charge my client a 10% mark up I am required to charge a 6% tax on the mark up (15 cents) we have already paid the tax on my cost. This requires paperwork, postage and time. It’s just not worth the time and effort. I am not sure about other states but in VT labor is not taxed. When I shop, I do not just grab and run,
I examine every piece that
I purchase, this can be very time consuming therefore instead of marking up product I charge labor for the time it takes to shop, load and transport.
Material cost, and labor only count for a portion of the final cost. You must consider consumables (blades, belts, maintenance on tools), an apportioned amount of tool replacement from wear and tear, apportioned amount for extraneous tools (example might be computer & software). If you are a business, there are taxes, insurance, rental valuation for shop (or equivalent), permits, bonds, etc. For a contractor this overhead can easily run 10 to 14% of project valuation. You might say, this is one time for friend/family, none of the less, the first line costs should be considered, or you will be making a charitable contribution to the person you are doing the work for. If you are going to charge, and the quality of your work is of value, you owe it to others to not devalue the market by being a bad businessman. Happens all of the time, and is the first step to financial failure.
Don’t forget the costs associated with life; health insurance, home owner’s insurance, self-employment taxes. Does your locality charge a business tax? Sales tax on your product, if your state has it. The cost of setting and maintaining your business structure, Corporation, LLC. The list goes on, but you can see the trends.
What if material cost is zero, but you have at least 2 hours, or more what price would you put?
Hi Dan. I would charge 2 x your hourly shop rate, plus fair market value for the materials.
Thanks
Paul-Woodworkers Guild of America
What tools or machine we must have to start woodworking at home
You will need a skil saw or a miter saw, either a drill driver or impact driver, drill bits and screw bits, level, paint brush, wood glue, rags, 2 or 3 clamps to start with.
thanks for the info
How do you figure the cost for irreplaceable or hard to replace materials ie dryed aged mesquite wood
Hi Sandra. I give my best assessment of the cost to buy something comparable on today’s market. You might not find something that is nearly identical, but should be able to find something that is comparable in some respects. Ebay is a good source, and I’m sure there are others.
Thanks
Paul-Woodworkers Guild of America
thanks for the post, i never can figure what to charge. I do have a question, you mention to charge for all material that’s easy with the receipt, but what about stain and stuff how do you charge if you only use some out of a gallon or quart can?
Hi William. I would use the cost of the full quart in your formula. For small projects that might blow your price out of the water, and you will have to adjust. For larger projects it should work fine.
Thanks
Paul-Woodworkers Guild of America
The most common problem I have run into as far as pricing is, there are a great number of “wana be” handy guys out there who are always willing to under price your quote in order to get the job. It has taken me years to develop a customer base who pass on my info to their friends. Resist the urge to chase a job. Do quality work & in time you too will develop a “reputation” for good work then the work will more frequently find you.
Very helpful information. Thank you.
how much should you charge for reclaimed lumber. I have a lot and people are wanting to buy it. Don’t know what to charge.
Hi Russell. I don’t have any experience in buying or selling reclaimed material, and I would imagine that it varies a lot by region. I would suggest looking at what others are charging on Craigslist and price accordingly.
Thanks
Paul-WWGOA
need more help with cost and were to get meteriaal, i am in South Africa and battel to get meteriaals
I live in Cape Town, am retired and do woodwork for the love of it. Depending what materials you require,RARE WOODS here in CT have a warehouse full of off cuts and end of runs of a whole list of beautiful timber. Prices are per item and very reasonable.
I switched from wood working to one of a kind projects – mixed materials. For example: Mesquite trees stripped, stained, mounted for coat racks. The time I hunt cut transport arrange/ create the project with the purchase materials-total cost $30 & labor 4-6 hrs. I won’t sell them because friends say to sell them at $600. Your advice?
It sounds like your ”one-of-a-kind” projects are more like art pieces. They demand a higher price!
Thanks. Very helpful and practical.
I need learn how to price my homemade furniture
I truly appreciate the information! I would have never thought to go about pricing like that! Thank you I truly appreciate your help and enjoy your guises posts and information!
I do not have a web site yet but I hope to soon.
You must also regard the income tax and self-employment taxes incurred by being self employed e.g. as a sole proprietor. If you are a sole owner, but are classified as an LLC, there are even other tax considerations. Check with your CPA or tax professional.
If 2 products are the same but 1st is made of pine 2nd is an exotic wood? They both took the same time to make. How do I calculate that?
Hi Christine. I use a time + materials pricing model. So, if you charge $50/hr, and both projects take two hours, that would be $100 plus the cost of material.
Thanks
Paul-WWGOA
I used to build decks and fences as a sideline from my day job. When I priced a fence by the lineal measure I started with what the big box stores like the Home Depot or Lowe’s charged for their prebuilt 8’ sections. My price per foot was the same if I used spruce, treated lumber or cedar. The only difference was the material cost.
Working Visa USA
Have you ever used pear wood in a small project? Not the wood from S. America, but the fruit-bearing, N. American gnarly variety. If so, what was that like, and with what did you finish the project? Thanks! P.S. – I also wonder about the use of wood from an apple tree.
Hi Steve. I haven’t used pear wood, but I am actually building a small box right now using apple wood. I really like working with it. It cuts cleanly and sands nicely.
Thanks
Paul-WWGOA
Thank you
I to join but to give my mailing addres
Thank you for making this public, I stress every time I estimate. Now that this info is printed in a respected Mag… online or otherwise, it give creedance to my argument of compensation and material costs. Your article I can quote as sensible words confirming all I have researched as fair!
George is giving a bit of rule-of-thumb advice. Always remember that any job is only worth what the market will bear. You can spend time and money building a bunch of beautiful small boxes, but if you price them too high, they won’t sell or it will take forever for them to sell. The same goes for pricing cabinet jobs. Price them too high, and you will spend all your time making estimates, not cabinets.
Very simple and right on.
Hi, it will be really appreciated if you solve a couple of my problems. After reading and watching videos of wood working, I’ve decided to get my hands dirty and want to work on a simple project for my own house.
I am planning to build a couple of decorative shadow boxes with paint job. To hang it on the wall, I have decided to drill holes in the wood and hang the boxes on the screws drilled in the wall so that the screws remain invisible. The problem is that I am unable to decide between MDF and Plywood. I have read the differences of both but still need guidance. Can you help me out with it?
Hi. Either material will work well for your project. For painted projects I generally favor MDF as this material takes a paint finish better than most materials including plywood. Plywood accepts paint just fine, but the grain tends to project through the paint, whereas MDF has no grain so the painted surface is naturally flatter in appearance.
Thanks
Paul-WWGOA
MDF is great to work, but the fine dust is dangerous. You absolutely must have efficient extraction with the correct filtering, and wear a good-quality mask. MDF Is also quite heavy. I never use it now, but with regret. There are some dreadful plywoods around (in the UK) which omit bits of the inner veneers and have less than 100% gluing, so when you cut or rebate you expose voids and/or it delaminates. Good plywood is expensive here, but I use a good birch ply where consistency is necessary, and don’t regret it. The cost is more than offset by the time gained in the finishing phases. So much interesting stuff in this Association.
We made lots of projects for 2builders in The DC area. The MDF projects were heavy. Also you have to treat the edges of the sheets to get the paint to work. Try rubbing drywall compound on the edges and letting it dry. You can sand and the paint will work very well. We did a lot of spray finish. We made all of the model house extra furniture for these nationally known builders.
Go Plywood/ Think about French Cleat to hang cabinet.
MDF is heavy and will sag over time. You might think about real wood, with sanding sealer, then your finish.
I watched your table router class and I noticed that you did not use the lock on the lift. What is the lock used for and when do you use it?
Hello Paul,
It is used to prevent the router lift from moving down during the cutting operation. Some lifts need it more than others, but as a precautionary measure it is always a good idea to use it.
Thanks,
Paul WWGOA Video Membership
My guess is the innate judgement that any labor is close to a Trade Job. It is not worth as much as a Professional Job with the exception of a Snow Job. Until my brother received the counseling of a savvy person he barley charged enough to break even, After he was brought up to speed he was able to thrive in the repair and wood working working business.
i have a allen sets screw broke in my lathe knife handle and i want to take it of please if you can help me thank ypu
Hi Andre. This can be a pain. The only thought that I would have is to drill it out if you can. You might be able to find a special bit that can be tapped into the broken set screw to reverse it out. I would suggest seeking advice from a metal expert for this for a more informed opinion.
Thanks
Paul-WWGOA
Be careful because most setscrews are hardened. I would start with a left hand drill (this is a special set of drills and actually rotate the opposite direction of a normal twist drill) use one that is a little smaller than the setscrew so you don’t damage the threads. Have a marker on the drill so you know when it has gone thru the setscrew. If you are lucky the setscrew will back out on it’s own (the advantage of using a left hand drill) and you don’t have to move any further. If it doesn’t then you need to use an “easyout”. This is a tool that fits in the hoe you drilled and allows you to back the rest of the screw threads out.
“Easyout.” Easily the most mischaracterized tool in the universe.
[Correction: “Misnomered” may be more accurate.]
Sears has a set of bits to remove damaged screws.
Use a left hand drill bit a lot of the time it will grab and remove the screw you can find them at an auto parts store
If you know a an auto mechanic you should talk to Jim or her. Most of us have tools called easy outside. We drill aa hole into the middle of the screw tap on the right size easy out and then extract the the damage screw.
would you recommend the jet 22-44 drum sander or the jet 22-44 oscillating drum sander?
Hi Dennis. Oscillation is a very nice feature and worthy of consideration. I’d suggest taking a look at supermax as well. George loves his.
Thanks
Paul-WWGOA
No matter which type of sander do you use you can get about five times the life out of your sandpaper by using an old shoe( the black New Balance shoes I’ve been working great for us can’t even wear one out )made of rubber it will clean and clear up your sandpaper so you don’t have to change it as often there is a eraser that’s on the market connected to a paint stick that’s about 3 and 1/2 inch by 1 inch by 1 inch works great
There is a computer program called CUTLIST, that will let you calculate all the materials needed for a project. You can also input your projected time and will then give you the price of the project. It will also show you the most efficient way to cut sheet products.
Working Visa
Thank you Dale
That is fine for large items but I make small items like pens, razors, ice cream scoops, back scratches, nutcrackers, bottle stoppers, cork screws and much more. 4 times my costs would make my items prohibitively expensive. One example is a fancy ink pen with case. The pen kit costs $27, the wood $8, the cast $8 and then you have the sand paper and polishes. What would you I do here. I currently charge $125.00 and hear complaints and sell few of these beauties.
You are correct. When doing “craft” type projects your time is never appreciated.
Stained glass, metal or wood projects are labor intensive and your time is not valued as it should be.
Thank you so much. This eas very helpfull.